Every nuclear submarine will be told to leave Scotland after independence

from Sunday Herald, 09 March 2014

The UK’s entire nuclear-powered submarine fleet will be told to leave the Clyde and go back to England if Scotland votes for independence in September, the Scottish government has said.

This would deal a fatal blow to Ministry of Defence (MoD) plans to make the Faslane naval base near Helensburgh the UK home port for all its 14 reactor-driven submarines over the next few decades. As well as the four Trident submarines, three Trafalgar-class submarines and seven new Astute-class boats would all have to find a new base on the English coast.

The move has been warmly welcomed by anti-nuclear groups, who label the submarines “floating Chernobyls” after the devastating nuclear accident in Ukraine in 1986. But the MoD warned that ending Faslane’s role as a submarine base “would seriously impair the UK’s national security, including Scotland.” 

In 2011 the Scottish government welcomed the decision to station Astute submarines at Faslane because of the jobs they would bring. But this was publicly opposed by prominent party activists, and has led to a change of heart.

The Scottish government now says that it sees no role for any nuclear-powered submarines in an independent Scotland. “We do not see the continued basing of the Astute or Trafalgar fleets at Faslane, beyond the necessary transition period, to be in Scotland’s interests,” a spokeswoman told the Sunday Herald.

Scottish ministers expect the transition to take no longer than ten years, suggesting that there would be no nuclear-powered submarines at Faslane by 2026. “The Scottish government strongly favours a conventional approach to Scotland’s defence, with Faslane being Scotland’s main conventional naval base,” the spokeswoman added.

“In the event of independence, it would be for the rest of the UK to decide whether to relocate its submarine fleet to the Royal Navy submarine base at HMNB Devonport or to another location.”

Devonport, in Plymouth on the south coast of England, is the most likely alternative to Faslane. Trafalgar submarines are currently based there before their scheduled move to the Clyde by 2017.

The first two Astute submarines are already at Faslane, but the third, HMS Artful, has had its launch from Barrow in Cumbria delayed until later this year because of fears that an old dock there might collapse. The remaining four Astute boats are due to arrive at Faslane over the next ten years. 

The Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament argued that it would be relatively easy to relocate the submarines to Devonport. “We have lived for too long with these floating Chernobyls in our lochs,” said campaign co-ordinator, John Ainslie.

“Independence offers the prospect of a completely nuclear-free Scotland, with no Trident, no nuclear power stations and no Astute submarines.” 

Peter Burt, from the Nuclear Information Service in Reading, described the Astute programme as “an embarrassing white elephant” that helped wage war abroad rather than protecting people at home. “The Scottish government should be applauded for its pledge to kick Astute out of Faslane,” he said.

The MoD pointed out that the Clyde naval base was the biggest employment site in Scotland, with 6,700 military and civilian jobs. This would rise to 8,200 by 2022, as the nuclear-power submarines are all moved there, an MoD spokesman said.

“We are not developing contingency plans as we are confident that the Scottish people will vote to remain part of the UK family,” he argued. “Removing Faslane as an operating base for attack submarines would seriously impair the UK’s national security, including Scotland.”

But the Scottish government said that it expected to maintain the number of military jobs at Faslane as it changed from a nuclear to a non-nuclear base. “Those military personnel will be supported by a significant number of civilian personnel,” it said.

“During the transitional period large numbers of personnel from the rest of the UK will also be based there. In addition, work to reconfigure Faslane as a conventional naval base is expected to involve major construction activity, and related jobs, in the area.”

The nuclear submarines that will be told to leave the Clyde

Four Vanguard-class, powered by reactors and armed with Trident missiles

HMS Vanguard
HMS Victorious
HMS Vengeance
HMS Vigilant

Three Trafalgar-class, powered by reactors and conventionally armed

HMS Trenchant
HMS Talent
HMS Triumph

Seven Astute-class, powered by reactors and conventionally armed

HMS Astute
HMS Ambush
HMS Artful
HMS Audacious
HMS Anson
HMS Agamemnon
HMS Ajax

Comments

[Fedupof jocks]

Cant wait for scotland to vote yes and leave the union . No more sponging jocks !!!

[Ian McGeechan]

Nuclear armed and nuclear powered will all be leaving.

[Anthont Martin]

The government were moving all subs to Faslane to centralise skill base & save money, so why would anyone think they would suddenly decide to leave most of the subs at Faslane.

Also only 500 non-service local workers at Faslane is utter rubbish (800 industrial workers had a two hour strike today) & that only reflects approximately half the non-service workforce. (Did you get your details from the SNP white paper)?

It’s all conjecture anyway, Scotland could get independence & SNP might not even get into power so their views on nuclear weapons in Scotland at moment counts for nothing.

[Chmarrwalcott]

@John Campbell

the nnuclear armed subs are also nuclear powered as there would be no space for a conventional battery / diesel engines, with a nuclear core the space required for a diesel electric engine.

even then anything nuclear armed or nuclear powered will be removed from Scottish waters.

@robin Paterson

who says salmond would be in power, when we gain our freedom the entire of hollyrood will be in power, there wont be a single person as there will be an election to have our prime minister.

also, he would not risk accepting money from the uk government that wont join a currency union so there money would be technically worthless and cameran would not rick digging the rest of the uk into a deeper debt ridden hole by offering an insane amount of money.

this would be tantamount to having a foreign military force living in Scotland, to put it politically incorrect ... its like Russia in Crimea.

yes I am Scottish and I am voting yes, my vote is not for the snp or for salmond but for my country, since the 60's Scotland has never once voted tory and yet 90% of the elections have had the tories in power and with each tory government they have stripped Scotland og almost its entire industry.

when Scotland was the top place for building ships ... the torys shut them down and awarded contracts to shipyards down south.

the steel industry was massive in Scotland ... the tories shut it down and moved it south.

when Scotland had silicon glen ...... they stopped new companies opening in Scotland and offered massive incentives to open south.

here are the numbers, shipyards in the 70's had over 20,000 people employed, they were shut down to save 4,000 in England

the steel industry had just over 30,000 in Scotland, it was all closed down to save TWO plants in England that had 7,000 in England.

silicon glen had 50,000 .... 18 months later ALL GONE .... to save 14,000 on England

where I live we had Volvo, Leyland daf, dulux, ici explosives, in 1990 there was over 1/2 million people employed by these companies, when the tories regained power ALL of them shut down and were moved south ... want to know how many jobs were created after sacking 500,000, 41,000 .... that's right to create 41,000 jobs in England they fired 500,000 so they could get money from the government.

600,000 jobs lost in Scotland to save 66,000 in England only for all those companys for all those jobs lost Westminster royaly screwed over Scotland big.

now you know why we want to be our own country and have our own destiny

[Chmarrwalcott]

I hope we vote yes as Scotland has so many plans for green energy its crazy.

we currently have a major surplus of energy from wind and wave power, so much so Westminster overrode the Scottish parliament and pulled licenses for more wind and water turbines and gave out licenses for fracking in the Scottish highlands and islands ... lucky for hollrood they over rode Westminster on the fracking but were unable to override the turbines.

nuke subs are so obsolete it is scary, the lifespan of the sub is 20 years as the hull deteriorates much faster than a conventual sub due to the radiation eating away at the metal even though it is protected.

to make matters worse, the Scottish parliament rejected any new nuclear powerplants and oh look .. Westminster again took steps to ignore and actually remove the powers from hollyrood that would have stopped them from giving the green light to 2 new nuke plants.

2 plants which were to be the biggest in the world, this was so they could shut down the ones in England and siphon off the power in the ones in the uk.

sorry but Scotland is to be blunt and I hope not being offensive is being raped by Westminster and the tories

[Ronald Stewart]

Brilliant. ...this should give Westminster plenty of time to find a suitable spot for these monstrosities. ...lets see how long it takes for folk down south to start demonstrating against having these "floating chernobyls" on their coastline!

[A. Strachan]

I see the drivel by unionists has started already. The hatred for Salmond at the fore front! I have to admit I am not keen on Mr. S. myself but to say he would take the money beggars belief! He is one of the very few politicians in the UK that is not corrupt!

What he has done for Scotland no other has managed to do. He has put his heart and sole into making Scotland a better place, and although I do not particularly like the guy I admire what he has done and see no reason to be bitter towards what is in essence a liberal. He has many flaws, greed is certainly not one of them! For that you need to go to Westminster and look at the costs of the Lords, the expenses scandals etc..

we can't expect anybody to run a country for nothing, but we can expect them to do it correctly. Salmond has done that with bells on! Be he a bellend or a hero, whatever way you look at the guy, he is anything but greedy!

As for the subs, get them away from our country! The people employed there at present will remain and be employed by the Scottish armed forces or, I am sure if they prefer, they can simply transfer their position to the new yards of nuclear destruction?

[Gordon Downard]

The nuclear deterent will be removed, with its removal it will enable drilling for oil to take place to the west of Scotland, currently unable to due to the submarines and possible accident. There are not currently 6200 employed at Faslane, local people number appx 500,the remaining numbers are the military staff embarked onboard the submarines and also those on the shore base.....

Faslane is likely to become the main naval base for any future Scottish navy, so there is likely to be an increase in the 500 local people.

Watch their lies

[robin paterson]

after independence( I must be joking) Salmond would be offered rent by the UK for the bases,and throwing out his ideology in a mini second, would grab the money with both hands and spend it a minute late

[John Campbell]

RUBBISH.

It;s the nuclear-armed submarines that will be leaving the Clyde... not the nuclear-powered attack subs.